1
00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:09,110
welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

2
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:11,920
from Australia for science and reason

3
00:00:24,970 --> 00:00:13,930
[Music]

4
00:00:29,290 --> 00:00:24,980
yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

5
00:00:33,100 --> 00:00:29,300
episode number 588 for the 19th of

6
00:00:35,140 --> 00:00:33,110
January 2020 richardsaunders here with

7
00:00:39,460 --> 00:00:35,150
you coming to you this week from Bend

8
00:00:41,710 --> 00:00:39,470
Oregon and I'm walking along a road near

9
00:00:45,130 --> 00:00:41,720
Thunder Wood Ranch with the brine during

10
00:00:46,570 --> 00:00:45,140
hello Brian hello great to be visiting

11
00:00:50,110 --> 00:00:46,580
you great to visit the skeptoid

12
00:00:51,759 --> 00:00:50,120
headquarters and we're just taking a

13
00:00:54,130 --> 00:00:51,769
nice walk through the snow at the moment

14
00:00:57,729 --> 00:00:54,140
along your road the snow is falling it's

15
00:00:59,229 --> 00:00:57,739
just covered everywhere this beautiful

16
00:01:01,330 --> 00:00:59,239
white powdered snow it must be tough

17
00:01:02,830 --> 00:01:01,340
living here Brian why are we taking a

18
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:02,840
walk along the side of the road thank

19
00:01:06,279 --> 00:01:03,170
you

20
00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:06,289
exercise exercise the story surely just

21
00:01:11,590 --> 00:01:09,890
exercises we're not exactly dressed for

22
00:01:16,060 --> 00:01:11,600
this cold weather at the moment there's

23
00:01:18,219 --> 00:01:16,070
a long story folks in one day however

24
00:01:19,810 --> 00:01:18,229
the story you want to hear is what's

25
00:01:23,529 --> 00:01:19,820
coming up on this week's episode of the

26
00:01:26,830 --> 00:01:23,539
skeptic zone well in no particular order

27
00:01:29,710 --> 00:01:26,840
Maynard reports from skeptic on 2019

28
00:01:31,660 --> 00:01:29,720
once again with Steve novella and J

29
00:01:32,260 --> 00:01:31,670
novella from the skeptics guide to the

30
00:01:36,210 --> 00:01:32,270
universe

31
00:01:41,679 --> 00:01:36,220
our good friend Lara Benham and linguist

32
00:01:43,929 --> 00:01:41,689
dr. Lee Murray also this week our

33
00:01:47,830 --> 00:01:43,939
reporter Michelle Franklin talks about

34
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:47,840
rock stacking Mandy lee noble on fat

35
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:51,530
diets for the 2020s and I catch up with

36
00:01:56,620 --> 00:01:53,570
our old friend POTUS Berkman from the

37
00:02:00,450 --> 00:01:56,630
European skeptics podcast who tells us

38
00:02:03,700 --> 00:02:00,460
about a weird sort of personality test

39
00:02:07,210 --> 00:02:03,710
popular in Sweden now Brian I must say

40
00:02:12,220 --> 00:02:07,220
we were very fond of Pontus because in

41
00:02:14,770 --> 00:02:12,230
the last hour or so he actually sent us

42
00:02:15,660 --> 00:02:14,780
money so we could have a beer in his

43
00:02:18,910 --> 00:02:15,670
honor

44
00:02:21,009 --> 00:02:18,920
thank you font us a fine example that

45
00:02:25,090 --> 00:02:21,019
many others should follow I totally

46
00:02:28,210 --> 00:02:25,100
agree cool it is brisk out here but the

47
00:02:29,830 --> 00:02:28,220
beauty is just sublime it's hard to

48
00:02:32,050 --> 00:02:29,840
describe what we're walking past rocks

49
00:02:34,150 --> 00:02:32,060
and trees covered with snow the road is

50
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:34,160
completely covered with snow and we're

51
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:36,530
nearing the entrance to the skeptoid

52
00:02:42,220 --> 00:02:39,370
headquarters Wow

53
00:02:44,890 --> 00:02:42,230
let's get it's cold but it's just

54
00:02:48,270 --> 00:02:44,900
beautiful so why we right inside and

55
00:02:51,490 --> 00:02:48,280
possibly have a very warm drink Brian

56
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:51,500
most more than probably I hope the rest

57
00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:53,330
of you enjoyed this week's episode of

58
00:03:04,080 --> 00:02:55,170
the skipping zone

59
00:03:18,950 --> 00:03:04,090
[Music]

60
00:03:21,410 --> 00:03:18,960
and joining me now all the way from

61
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:21,420
beautiful malmö in Sweden it's pondus

62
00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:23,850
Bergman from the European skeptics

63
00:03:28,100 --> 00:03:26,550
podcast the real ESP experience good

64
00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:28,110
morning pontiff's hey Sun hey Sun

65
00:03:32,990 --> 00:03:31,350
Richard thanks for having me back of

66
00:03:35,410 --> 00:03:33,000
course you're always welcome on the show

67
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:35,420
anytime pontus thank you very much Dave

68
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:38,490
of course but today before we get to the

69
00:03:43,490 --> 00:03:41,450
topic in hand for those people who

70
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:43,500
listen to the skeptic zone of course

71
00:03:47,030 --> 00:03:45,090
would have heard over the years various

72
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:47,040
promotions for the European skeptics

73
00:03:52,070 --> 00:03:50,010
podcast you passed a big milestone in

74
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:52,080
episodes how's the podcast going it's

75
00:03:58,130 --> 00:03:54,690
going very well very well we just passed

76
00:04:01,310 --> 00:03:58,140
the 200th episode so we're now starting

77
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:01,320
off fifth year online or whatever it is

78
00:04:07,790 --> 00:04:05,010
and it's well yeah so it's a weekly

79
00:04:09,350 --> 00:04:07,800
podcast yeah yeah it's a I'm sorry

80
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:09,360
that's just so surprising to me I

81
00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:11,010
remember when you started and now you're

82
00:04:14,780 --> 00:04:12,510
telling me it's five years ago that's

83
00:04:16,460 --> 00:04:14,790
crazy yes yes really oh it's four years

84
00:04:18,530 --> 00:04:16,470
ago we're starting our fifth year now so

85
00:04:20,479 --> 00:04:18,540
right now yeah yeah of course I

86
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:20,489
understand it's still it's still crazy

87
00:04:25,550 --> 00:04:22,370
yeah it is it is

88
00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:25,560
well it's a weekly thing and we do it

89
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:27,690
every week it's it's hard work but it's

90
00:04:34,190 --> 00:04:30,810
fun and we think we're doing something

91
00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:34,200
too you know and help the skeptics

92
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:35,910
movement what we're doing is we try to

93
00:04:42,380 --> 00:04:38,930
focus on European events and European

94
00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:42,390
pseudoscience and European skepticism

95
00:04:48,830 --> 00:04:46,110
and try to tie together countries that

96
00:04:50,090 --> 00:04:48,840
you may not hear about too much if

97
00:04:54,410 --> 00:04:50,100
you're just in the english-speaking

98
00:04:56,810 --> 00:04:54,420
world so such as check a Czech Republic

99
00:05:00,110 --> 00:04:56,820
and Italy and what's going on in

100
00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:00,120
Portugal and so on what is this annual

101
00:05:06,050 --> 00:05:03,330
award that the Swedish skeptics give out

102
00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:06,060
just like you do in Australia you want

103
00:05:11,930 --> 00:05:10,110
to if you want to highlight certain

104
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:11,940
things that happen during the year in

105
00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:14,570
Sweden we give up that we give out two

106
00:05:22,370 --> 00:05:17,850
awards one is enlightener of the year

107
00:05:23,659 --> 00:05:22,380
somebody who's been you know been doing

108
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:23,669
something good for science and

109
00:05:28,550 --> 00:05:26,490
advocating rational thinking etc and

110
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:28,560
then we have one satirical award as

111
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:29,970
well which unfortunately doesn't

112
00:05:35,750 --> 00:05:32,970
translate very well it's for people who

113
00:05:37,790 --> 00:05:35,760
have confounded the public in a way and

114
00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:37,800
we have a very good word for that in in

115
00:05:43,490 --> 00:05:40,770
Swedish but we can translate it as

116
00:05:45,980 --> 00:05:43,500
confounder of the year even I I know

117
00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:45,990
it's not that's not a word you see what

118
00:05:51,020 --> 00:05:48,510
I mean so the award is like the

119
00:05:53,180 --> 00:05:51,030
Australian skeptics bent spoon exactly

120
00:05:55,610 --> 00:05:53,190
that's why it so in Sweden we have the

121
00:05:59,990 --> 00:05:55,620
confounder er of the year how does that

122
00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:00,000
sound in Swedish it's our foot orbits

123
00:06:05,330 --> 00:06:03,510
for Valera for Valera is a confounder er

124
00:06:07,100 --> 00:06:05,340
and apparently it's just a Swedish thing

125
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:07,110
because we have a very specific word for

126
00:06:12,980 --> 00:06:11,610
it well I'll take you I'll take your

127
00:06:16,219 --> 00:06:12,990
word for it I won't try to pronounce

128
00:06:19,250 --> 00:06:16,229
that so recently I think it was at this

129
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:19,260
year or in the last year the award was

130
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:21,810
given to an author by the name of Thomas

131
00:06:26,450 --> 00:06:23,010
Eriksson yes

132
00:06:28,250 --> 00:06:26,460
that isn't a wrote a book called and I

133
00:06:31,909 --> 00:06:28,260
must admit I haven't caught up with all

134
00:06:33,110 --> 00:06:31,919
this surrounded by idiots which is a

135
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:33,120
quite a title

136
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:35,970
hmm now why is this why is Thomas

137
00:06:42,980 --> 00:06:38,610
Eriksson worthy of being a confounder of

138
00:06:45,860 --> 00:06:42,990
the year yes well it is said that it

139
00:06:48,020 --> 00:06:45,870
contains the key and how to divide

140
00:06:53,060 --> 00:06:48,030
people into different personality types

141
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:53,070
oh so you have a red person or a green

142
00:06:59,210 --> 00:06:56,010
person or a yellow person etc and it's

143
00:07:02,029 --> 00:06:59,220
not even his idea but the problem is

144
00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:02,039
that it's extremely successful have been

145
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:05,280
here in Sweden the book and it's also

146
00:07:10,670 --> 00:07:08,370
nonsense it's compare you could compare

147
00:07:14,300 --> 00:07:10,680
it to horoscopes it doesn't give you any

148
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:14,310
clue of how if you get the labelled red

149
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:18,570
person doesn't help anything in how to -

150
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:20,490
it doesn't help you at all it's like

151
00:07:24,980 --> 00:07:23,010
being a Capricorn or something what can

152
00:07:28,430 --> 00:07:24,990
you do with that information problem is

153
00:07:31,219 --> 00:07:28,440
that it's so successful now I think it's

154
00:07:34,310 --> 00:07:31,229
close has sold close to 1 million copies

155
00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:34,320
in and you know Sweden only has 10

156
00:07:40,969 --> 00:07:37,710
million inhabitants must be a copy in

157
00:07:42,589 --> 00:07:40,979
every third household and it's getting

158
00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:42,599
into people's

159
00:07:48,830 --> 00:07:45,770
everyday life as well it's used by

160
00:07:51,740 --> 00:07:48,840
recruiting companies it's reduced by

161
00:07:53,930 --> 00:07:51,750
team-building exercises it's used even

162
00:07:56,930 --> 00:07:53,940
in marriage counseling and it's all

163
00:07:58,760 --> 00:07:56,940
based on nonsense that's extraordinary

164
00:08:00,680 --> 00:07:58,770
and you're saying their personality

165
00:08:03,050 --> 00:08:00,690
tests now this is something I haven't

166
00:08:08,330 --> 00:08:03,060
caught up with yet the tests are known

167
00:08:10,550 --> 00:08:08,340
as di s yes C or D is a yeah yes do you

168
00:08:12,110 --> 00:08:10,560
know any I mean what is that meaning I

169
00:08:14,300 --> 00:08:12,120
mean how do you do this test how you

170
00:08:16,969 --> 00:08:14,310
label the red person or a green person

171
00:08:20,510 --> 00:08:16,979
or whatever yes so so the D stands for

172
00:08:23,450 --> 00:08:20,520
dominant and then there's a I is

173
00:08:27,469 --> 00:08:23,460
influential the S is steady or

174
00:08:30,550 --> 00:08:27,479
submissive and the C is compliant and

175
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:30,560
sometimes this last one is called

176
00:08:37,850 --> 00:08:33,450
analytical so then it's DISA so its core

177
00:08:40,550 --> 00:08:37,860
DISA analysis and this was invented in

178
00:08:44,329 --> 00:08:40,560
the 40s not by Thomas Ericsson by the

179
00:08:46,850 --> 00:08:44,339
way because he wasn't born yeah by a guy

180
00:08:49,730 --> 00:08:46,860
called William Moulton Marston who was

181
00:08:53,210 --> 00:08:49,740
the same guy who invented Wonder Woman

182
00:08:57,860 --> 00:08:53,220
so there was a it's a very interesting

183
00:09:00,620 --> 00:08:57,870
person and he just sat in his you know

184
00:09:02,630 --> 00:09:00,630
study and made this all up it's not

185
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:02,640
based on any studies it's not based on

186
00:09:07,579 --> 00:09:05,490
any science it's he didn't try to test

187
00:09:10,579 --> 00:09:07,589
it or anything he just said this is how

188
00:09:12,860 --> 00:09:10,589
I think it is and it's very simplistic

189
00:09:16,940 --> 00:09:12,870
you basically great people in two

190
00:09:19,579 --> 00:09:16,950
dimensions the first one is task-focused

191
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:19,589
or people-focused apparently you can't

192
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:22,290
be both you are either/or and the other

193
00:09:31,819 --> 00:09:25,170
one is if you're active or reflective

194
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:31,829
and based on how you after his ideas

195
00:09:38,689 --> 00:09:35,010
that would later developed tests with

196
00:09:40,340 --> 00:09:38,699
self-reported tests that you answer a

197
00:09:42,639 --> 00:09:40,350
number of questions and then you get

198
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:42,649
your score and you become either a red

199
00:09:49,970 --> 00:09:46,170
green yellow or blue person but the

200
00:09:52,490 --> 00:09:49,980
problem is and I'm not a psychologist

201
00:09:56,260 --> 00:09:52,500
but I know of you and the ones I've

202
00:09:59,050 --> 00:09:56,270
talked to say that in psychology we real

203
00:10:01,269 --> 00:09:59,060
don't want to put people in different

204
00:10:02,860 --> 00:10:01,279
personality types we're very careful

205
00:10:04,780 --> 00:10:02,870
with that what we're talking about in

206
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:04,790
psychology is different behavior and

207
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:07,130
that behavior can be very different in

208
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:09,890
different situation it can evolve over

209
00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:13,610
time etc so it's very very hard to

210
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:16,310
classify people into certain

211
00:10:20,860 --> 00:10:18,410
personalities well as you were reading

212
00:10:23,949 --> 00:10:20,870
to me as you were telling me all about

213
00:10:26,740 --> 00:10:23,959
this all the red flags in my mind are

214
00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:26,750
shooting up straight away it just sounds

215
00:10:31,540 --> 00:10:29,600
such it sounds so obvious a

216
00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:31,550
pseudoscience and obviously like

217
00:10:36,670 --> 00:10:33,910
astrology or palm reading or

218
00:10:39,250 --> 00:10:36,680
categorizing people I'm quite surprised

219
00:10:41,019 --> 00:10:39,260
and how people actually capitalizing on

220
00:10:44,410 --> 00:10:41,029
this how people making money apart from

221
00:10:47,350 --> 00:10:44,420
book sales book sales and giving

222
00:10:51,699 --> 00:10:47,360
lectures and workshops

223
00:10:54,490 --> 00:10:51,709
I think tomas ax on charges like three

224
00:10:56,949 --> 00:10:54,500
or four thousand dollars prevalent for a

225
00:11:00,040 --> 00:10:56,959
day of of a workshop etc and he does

226
00:11:02,410 --> 00:11:00,050
this i think a hundred and twenty one

227
00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:02,420
hundred and fifty times per year so it's

228
00:11:07,329 --> 00:11:04,640
one business and then with the world and

229
00:11:09,220 --> 00:11:07,339
of course there are sequels so the the

230
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:09,230
first one is called surrounded by idiots

231
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:13,250
which is a strangely ironic title if I

232
00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:15,770
may digress and my copy of it because I

233
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:19,040
had to get a copy it has a sticker on it

234
00:11:23,260 --> 00:11:21,170
says eight hundred thousand readers

235
00:11:34,269 --> 00:11:23,270
cannot be wrong there are idiots

236
00:11:37,170 --> 00:11:34,279
everywhere that's just brilliant yes and

237
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:37,180
of course there are now the sequel's

238
00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:39,890
surrounded by psychopaths where he's

239
00:11:44,740 --> 00:11:42,110
less that if you read this book you can

240
00:11:48,370 --> 00:11:44,750
diagnose a psychopath in about fifteen

241
00:11:50,980 --> 00:11:48,380
minutes which is probably not something

242
00:11:53,860 --> 00:11:50,990
you should try to do and then there is

243
00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:53,870
the next sequel called surrounded by bad

244
00:12:00,370 --> 00:11:57,290
bosses how to avoid now why good

245
00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:00,380
leadership is so rare but then I guess

246
00:12:06,910 --> 00:12:04,160
he found out that bosses or managers are

247
00:12:08,410 --> 00:12:06,920
good people to by book so he didn't want

248
00:12:09,940 --> 00:12:08,420
to alienate them so he quickly wrote

249
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:09,950
another sequel called

250
00:12:16,350 --> 00:12:12,800
surrounded by lazy people why some

251
00:12:19,570 --> 00:12:16,360
co-workers never get things done so if

252
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:19,580
you wanted to sell this to everybody of

253
00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:21,920
course and I'm saying now the whole

254
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:24,110
premise is that you're good you're okay

255
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:25,970
you're you could be green yellow red

256
00:12:31,390 --> 00:12:28,730
pink blue doesn't matter it's the other

257
00:12:32,830 --> 00:12:31,400
people yes that you're better than all

258
00:12:34,660 --> 00:12:32,840
the other people or you can be better

259
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:34,670
than all the other people again it's

260
00:12:40,780 --> 00:12:38,450
it's I am amazed how obvious a

261
00:12:42,630 --> 00:12:40,790
pseudoscience this is now what else have

262
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:42,640
this really skeptics been doing I

263
00:12:46,810 --> 00:12:44,720
presume you've been trying to get media

264
00:12:49,930 --> 00:12:46,820
attention to this or something yes we

265
00:12:52,930 --> 00:12:49,940
have we've also pointed out that last

266
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:52,940
year even after we gave him this shame

267
00:13:00,460 --> 00:12:56,930
award we have found that the Swedish

268
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:00,470
government official organizations such

269
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:03,170
as regions that the regions in the

270
00:13:10,450 --> 00:13:05,570
healthcare and others have spent

271
00:13:12,970 --> 00:13:10,460
millions of Swedish kronor which is well

272
00:13:16,990 --> 00:13:12,980
let's divide it by 10 to make it into a

273
00:13:19,630 --> 00:13:17,000
dollar so over a million dollars to four

274
00:13:23,740 --> 00:13:19,640
that's what we found and there's

275
00:13:26,590 --> 00:13:23,750
probably much more on his lectures on on

276
00:13:29,050 --> 00:13:26,600
other companies do selling the same kind

277
00:13:31,500 --> 00:13:29,060
of thing also dividing people into real

278
00:13:34,450 --> 00:13:31,510
red yellow and green people or a

279
00:13:36,220 --> 00:13:34,460
personality types again found us I'm

280
00:13:38,860 --> 00:13:36,230
still amazed by hearing all this it's

281
00:13:42,370 --> 00:13:38,870
it's I couldn't imagine coming up with a

282
00:13:45,250 --> 00:13:42,380
more obvious pseudoscience and this just

283
00:13:47,890 --> 00:13:45,260
divide people into colors is a handy way

284
00:13:51,220 --> 00:13:47,900
to do it yes I and I would imagine

285
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:51,230
though there should be a straightforward

286
00:13:54,910 --> 00:13:53,570
way to test this if this system actually

287
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:54,920
works yes

288
00:14:01,660 --> 00:13:58,010
but he's careful not to do that of

289
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:01,670
course and actually I think it has been

290
00:14:07,690 --> 00:14:04,610
tested or tried but it had never has

291
00:14:09,250 --> 00:14:07,700
never panned out the problem and the

292
00:14:11,230 --> 00:14:09,260
reason I wanted to talk to you in your

293
00:14:14,010 --> 00:14:11,240
listeners as well is that now as it's

294
00:14:16,030 --> 00:14:14,020
translated into English we want to warn

295
00:14:19,390 --> 00:14:16,040
skeptics and people all over the world

296
00:14:21,740 --> 00:14:19,400
it is available now on Amazon on in

297
00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:21,750
Australia Richard

298
00:14:26,510 --> 00:14:23,880
and it's getting good reviews there

299
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:26,520
because it is very it's very attractive

300
00:14:33,710 --> 00:14:30,510
idea and the thing is - it's very

301
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:33,720
attractive to think that by answering a

302
00:14:40,490 --> 00:14:37,680
few questions you get the there is the

303
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:40,500
key to all your problems so it's very

304
00:14:47,390 --> 00:14:44,010
much the case of a very complex issue

305
00:14:49,010 --> 00:14:47,400
having a very simple explanation and you

306
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:49,020
just read this book and then you then

307
00:14:54,170 --> 00:14:51,330
you realize why you're not why you're

308
00:14:56,890 --> 00:14:54,180
failing at work or why your wife is mad

309
00:14:59,720 --> 00:14:56,900
at you or anything that can happen right

310
00:15:03,110 --> 00:14:59,730
so people love this and you have to

311
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:03,120
really point out to them that it is if I

312
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:05,010
may say so [\h__\h] and you have maybe

313
00:15:11,780 --> 00:15:08,850
you have to censor that out but BA how

314
00:15:14,990 --> 00:15:11,790
well Ponder's I must say the policy of

315
00:15:17,060 --> 00:15:15,000
the skeptic CERN is to be very very

316
00:15:19,070 --> 00:15:17,070
family friendly but there are certain

317
00:15:21,290 --> 00:15:19,080
terms in our society used in the right

318
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:21,300
context which I think are okay and I

319
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:22,890
think that's one of them used in this

320
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:25,680
context alright thank you very much for

321
00:15:31,070 --> 00:15:28,050
allowing like that well thank you for

322
00:15:34,130 --> 00:15:31,080
the warning yeah it's so hard to keep a

323
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:34,140
finger on the pulse of every weird and

324
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:36,210
skeptical and pseudoscience thing

325
00:15:41,210 --> 00:15:37,650
happening around the world but this is a

326
00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:41,220
good warning for us yeah we will I'll

327
00:15:45,260 --> 00:15:43,710
make it my mission in the next little

328
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:45,270
world to find out more about this

329
00:15:51,050 --> 00:15:48,090
because it's just as I keep saying and

330
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:51,060
saying it's just so obvious what it is

331
00:15:54,620 --> 00:15:52,410
and that's one of the things I like

332
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,630
about having sceptical colleagues all

333
00:15:59,180 --> 00:15:56,160
around the world we can certainly help

334
00:16:02,060 --> 00:15:59,190
each other out and let each other in on

335
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:02,070
this this information yeah and to make

336
00:16:09,050 --> 00:16:04,770
it easier for for you guys out there we

337
00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:09,060
have translated a rather long article by

338
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:11,310
an actual psychologist Swedish

339
00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:14,490
psychologist into English when we have

340
00:16:19,370 --> 00:16:16,350
published that and I will send you the

341
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:19,380
link Richard so you can put it in the

342
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:22,290
show notes so if you want to read up on

343
00:16:29,510 --> 00:16:24,810
what the real psychology says about this

344
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:29,520
and why this is not real science then

345
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:31,440
then you're free to do that and I

346
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:34,530
already got a question from from the

347
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:35,360
Dutch skeptic

348
00:16:39,819 --> 00:16:37,370
if it's okay to translate it into their

349
00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:39,829
language and yes please translate it

350
00:16:45,250 --> 00:16:42,769
into all the languages you can because

351
00:16:47,170 --> 00:16:45,260
we want to spread the word excellent

352
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:47,180
thanks again Pontus I will certainly

353
00:16:50,740 --> 00:16:49,010
folks I'll link to that article in this

354
00:16:53,650 --> 00:16:50,750
week's show note I encourage you to read

355
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:53,660
that especially if you're interested in

356
00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:55,250
this sort of pseudo science and

357
00:16:59,889 --> 00:16:58,490
personality test is starting to sound a

358
00:17:01,810 --> 00:16:59,899
little bit like the secret is an

359
00:17:04,449 --> 00:17:01,820
abundant yes yes absolutely

360
00:17:06,730 --> 00:17:04,459
yeah well pundits once again thank you

361
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:06,740
very much and as we sign out I wouldn't

362
00:17:10,090 --> 00:17:07,970
know if you wouldn't mind saying a few

363
00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:10,100
words to all our Swedish listeners I'm

364
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:13,699
Swedish of course yah yah - Alaska less

365
00:17:21,010 --> 00:17:18,079
support on Thomas X oh no Hahn's only

366
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:21,020
even a video to book for them a bhakti

367
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:23,089
an idio disc thank you very much Richard

368
00:17:27,579 --> 00:17:26,089
for having me on anytime pontus and

369
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:27,589
anytime you want to come back on the

370
00:17:31,210 --> 00:17:29,510
show please drop me a line and you be

371
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:31,220
straight to the top of the queue but for

372
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:33,290
now pontus Bergman from the European

373
00:17:38,050 --> 00:17:35,120
skeptics podcast thank you very much

374
00:17:52,590 --> 00:17:38,060
thank you bye

375
00:17:54,510 --> 00:17:52,600
[Music]

376
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:54,520
exist

377
00:18:00,650 --> 00:17:57,840
[Music]

378
00:18:02,570 --> 00:18:00,660
hey Sam have you ever wondered what

379
00:18:04,460 --> 00:18:02,580
skeptics are up to in countries where

380
00:18:06,590 --> 00:18:04,470
English is not necessarily the first

381
00:18:08,330 --> 00:18:06,600
language or are you interested to learn

382
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:08,340
about some fascinating and sometimes

383
00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:10,770
very bizarre Europe related facts events

384
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:13,110
or people from history of skepticism or

385
00:18:17,090 --> 00:18:14,490
do you just want to know who's been

386
00:18:19,850 --> 00:18:17,100
really wrong lately you can find out all

387
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:19,860
about that and more on the award-winning

388
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:23,370
show the ESP the European sceptics

389
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:26,010
podcast so where can people find the

390
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:29,490
show you can find it online at the ESP

391
00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:31,410
dot EU but you can also follow us on

392
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:34,260
Twitter at es podcast and d'ascoyne you

393
00:18:39,050 --> 00:18:37,110
or like us on Facebook oh and you can

394
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:39,060
contacts the show by sending an email to

395
00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:42,330
info at the ESP dot EU if you want to

396
00:18:47,060 --> 00:18:44,460
subscribe do a quick search for the

397
00:18:49,580 --> 00:18:47,070
European skeptics podcast on SoundCloud

398
00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:49,590
iTunes stitcher or whatever you get to

399
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:52,440
your podcast the European skeptics

400
00:19:02,520 --> 00:18:57,520
podcast the real ESP experience

401
00:19:18,510 --> 00:19:17,130
I don't know how you can believe that

402
00:19:25,380 --> 00:19:18,520
looks good enough to eat

403
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:25,390
or does it here's the diet skeptic man

404
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:33,450
daily noble aloe skeptic sign listeners

405
00:19:44,670 --> 00:19:37,120
mandelino ville here dietitian and

406
00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:44,680
skeptic reporting from Brisbane while

407
00:19:50,130 --> 00:19:46,840
welcome to the new year skeptic zone

408
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:50,140
listeners and to a new decade and of

409
00:19:55,650 --> 00:19:52,480
course it would not be the new year

410
00:19:58,980 --> 00:19:55,660
without the annual Russia bad diets

411
00:20:01,080 --> 00:19:58,990
offering a miraculous solution for all

412
00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:01,090
those that are resolved to lose weight

413
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:05,740
in 2020 so to celebrate the new year in

414
00:20:12,090 --> 00:20:09,520
true diet skeptic style for this episode

415
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:12,100
of the diet skeptic report I will be

416
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:14,650
unpacking the claims made by one of

417
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:20,130
these magical offerings the hcg diet

418
00:20:27,180 --> 00:20:24,370
originally formulated in 1954 but

419
00:20:30,050 --> 00:20:27,190
currently prescribed by both unregulated

420
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:30,060
and regulated health practitioners in

421
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:33,490
Australia that is correct skeptics own

422
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:36,880
listeners while I unpack the claims made

423
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:40,630
by this day and the lack of evidence to

424
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:43,810
support those claims and the potential

425
00:20:49,620 --> 00:20:47,290
for harm keep in mind that this diet is

426
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:49,630
being prescribed by a small number of

427
00:20:54,780 --> 00:20:52,090
medical doctors and pharmacists in

428
00:20:58,560 --> 00:20:54,790
Australia so there's begin with the

429
00:21:02,880 --> 00:20:58,570
acronym HCG that stands for human

430
00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:02,890
chorionic gonadotropin hormone you might

431
00:21:08,910 --> 00:21:05,590
recognize this hormone as it is produced

432
00:21:12,660 --> 00:21:08,920
in large quantities during pregnancy to

433
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:12,670
sustain a fetus pregnancy tests actually

434
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:15,310
detect the presence of HCG because it is

435
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:16,250
rarely produced

436
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:20,330
by the body except in pregnancy those

437
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:23,510
critical of the hcg diet described the

438
00:21:29,530 --> 00:21:26,170
proposed mechanism for weight loss as

439
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:29,540
vague and without a sound scientific

440
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:32,930
basis but from what I can gather the

441
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:35,530
theory is that because hate CG is

442
00:21:42,130 --> 00:21:37,970
involved in the utilization of fat

443
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:42,140
stores to support a pregnancy it will it

444
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:45,170
is proposed that it will utilize the fat

445
00:21:51,340 --> 00:21:48,710
stores of non pregnant people to be used

446
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:51,350
as energy when they follow a very low

447
00:21:55,710 --> 00:21:54,320
energy diet without the undesirable

448
00:21:59,130 --> 00:21:55,720
effects of hunger

449
00:22:03,070 --> 00:21:59,140
it is also proposed that the HCG diet

450
00:22:05,230 --> 00:22:03,080
induces a feeling of well-being the HCG

451
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:05,240
diet was first described as a treatment

452
00:22:12,250 --> 00:22:08,240
for obesity by dr. Albert Theodor

453
00:22:15,310 --> 00:22:12,260
William Simmons in 1954 in his book

454
00:22:17,470 --> 00:22:15,320
titled pounds and inches and in an

455
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:17,480
article published in The Lancet in the

456
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:20,690
same year the simians method consists of

457
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:25,090
a regime of 125 units of hate CG

458
00:22:30,210 --> 00:22:27,710
injected six days per week for eight

459
00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:30,220
weeks in combination with a rigid

460
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:33,320
low-calorie diet of about 500 calories

461
00:22:38,350 --> 00:22:36,320
per day now for most people this would

462
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:38,360
be around a quarter of their normal

463
00:22:45,730 --> 00:22:42,050
intake more modern versions of the diet

464
00:22:49,210 --> 00:22:45,740
offer HCG tablets or oral sprays have

465
00:22:52,990 --> 00:22:49,220
the endocrine some society states that

466
00:22:55,450 --> 00:22:53,000
HCG is broken down as food when taken by

467
00:22:57,660 --> 00:22:55,460
mouth and hay cge contained in drops and

468
00:23:00,190 --> 00:22:57,670
pills will have no effect on the body

469
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:00,200
there are also many alternative health

470
00:23:05,490 --> 00:23:02,690
providers that offer homeopathic

471
00:23:08,140 --> 00:23:05,500
preparations of haitch CG supplements

472
00:23:10,810 --> 00:23:08,150
which will no more likely to be

473
00:23:12,910 --> 00:23:10,820
effective like all homeopathic

474
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:12,920
preparations would have a reduced risk

475
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:14,090
of side effects

476
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:18,110
now HCG the HCG diet like many fed diets

477
00:23:22,930 --> 00:23:20,930
are cycled in and out of popularity over

478
00:23:25,450 --> 00:23:22,940
the last seven decades peaking in the

479
00:23:28,419 --> 00:23:25,460
1970s and then returning again in the

480
00:23:30,899 --> 00:23:28,429
early 2000s with dr. oz promoting the

481
00:23:34,210 --> 00:23:30,909
diet on his television show

482
00:23:36,399 --> 00:23:34,220
advocates claimed that the HCG diet

483
00:23:39,220 --> 00:23:36,409
achieves rapid and permanent weight loss

484
00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:39,230
as well as fat redistribution from

485
00:23:45,310 --> 00:23:41,480
stomach hips thighs and buttocks and of

486
00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:45,320
arms with minimal hunger those up via

487
00:23:51,460 --> 00:23:48,529
the HCG diet often report a high level

488
00:23:55,239 --> 00:23:51,470
of satisfaction with a diet initially

489
00:23:57,609 --> 00:23:55,249
however any weight loss is achieved due

490
00:24:00,759 --> 00:23:57,619
to the very low calorie diet as opposed

491
00:24:03,340 --> 00:24:00,769
to any action of the HCG and like all

492
00:24:05,139 --> 00:24:03,350
diets the weight is soon regained due to

493
00:24:08,979 --> 00:24:05,149
the body's normal physiological

494
00:24:12,149 --> 00:24:08,989
responses to weight loss since the

495
00:24:14,830 --> 00:24:12,159
simians initial research published in

496
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:14,840
1954 there have been two published

497
00:24:19,810 --> 00:24:16,730
studies that have supported the use of

498
00:24:21,729 --> 00:24:19,820
the HCG diet supplement however these

499
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:21,739
studies have been criticized for

500
00:24:28,649 --> 00:24:24,320
conflicts of interest inaccuracies and

501
00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:28,659
not being strictly double-blinded a 1995

502
00:24:33,879 --> 00:24:30,769
meta-analysis published in the british

503
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:33,889
journal of clinical pharmacology found

504
00:24:39,489 --> 00:24:36,559
14 published investigations into the

505
00:24:43,509 --> 00:24:39,499
effects of the HCG weight loss

506
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:43,519
supplements of which 12 found HCG

507
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:46,369
provided no benefit reading from the

508
00:24:50,739 --> 00:24:48,830
conclusion of that meta-analysis we

509
00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:50,749
conclude that there is no scientific

510
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:53,470
evidence that HCG causes weight loss a

511
00:24:58,680 --> 00:24:56,210
redistribution of that stays off hunger

512
00:25:01,509 --> 00:24:58,690
or induces a feeling of well-being

513
00:25:04,479 --> 00:25:01,519
therefore the use of HCG should be

514
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,489
regarded as an inappropriate therapy for

515
00:25:09,340 --> 00:25:07,039
weight reduction it also goes on to say

516
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:09,350
that restraints on physicians predict

517
00:25:15,580 --> 00:25:12,080
practicing this therapy can be based on

518
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:15,590
our findings these findings have been

519
00:25:19,409 --> 00:25:17,600
supported by a position statement from

520
00:25:21,970 --> 00:25:19,419
the american society of bariatric

521
00:25:24,489 --> 00:25:21,980
physicians stating that numerous

522
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:24,499
clinical trials have shown HCG to be

523
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:26,960
ineffectual in producing weight loss and

524
00:25:32,739 --> 00:25:29,570
more recent reviews in the annuals of

525
00:25:35,139 --> 00:25:32,749
pharmacotherapy and even the Journal of

526
00:25:36,909 --> 00:25:35,149
dietary supplements a publication that

527
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:36,919
you would imagine would be more inclined

528
00:25:40,299 --> 00:25:38,210
to publish articles that were

529
00:25:44,170 --> 00:25:40,309
sympathetic towards the effectiveness of

530
00:25:46,690 --> 00:25:44,180
diet supplements in fact

531
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:46,700
the lack of evidence for the HCG diet

532
00:25:52,540 --> 00:25:50,570
was flagged as early as 1976 with the

533
00:25:55,210 --> 00:25:52,550
Food and Drug Administration requiring

534
00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:55,220
simians and others to include the

535
00:26:01,690 --> 00:25:58,730
following FDA mandated disclaimer on all

536
00:26:04,420 --> 00:26:01,700
advertisements weight reduction

537
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:04,430
treatments include the injection of HCG

538
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:07,250
a drug that has not been approved by the

539
00:26:11,740 --> 00:26:10,310
Food and Drugs Administration as safe

540
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:11,750
and effective in the treatment of

541
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:14,480
obesity or weight control there is no

542
00:26:19,390 --> 00:26:17,090
substantial evidence that HCG increases

543
00:26:23,410 --> 00:26:19,400
weight loss beyond that resulting from

544
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:23,420
caloric restriction that it causes a

545
00:26:29,710 --> 00:26:25,910
more attractive or normal distribution

546
00:26:31,870 --> 00:26:29,720
of fat or that it decreases the hunger

547
00:26:34,150 --> 00:26:31,880
and discomfort associated with calorie

548
00:26:36,670 --> 00:26:34,160
restrictive diets so the question

549
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:36,680
remains are there any potential harmful

550
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:39,440
side effects of HCG used as a

551
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:42,710
weight-loss supplement the thing is the

552
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:45,200
use of HCG as a diet supplement is

553
00:26:49,330 --> 00:26:47,840
considered to be off-label so there is

554
00:26:53,110 --> 00:26:49,340
little in the way of research or

555
00:26:56,530 --> 00:26:53,120
monitoring of its safety but HCG is used

556
00:26:58,540 --> 00:26:56,540
in relatively higher doses in fertility

557
00:27:01,000 --> 00:26:58,550
treatments and the risks that are

558
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:01,010
associated when described in higher

559
00:27:07,860 --> 00:27:04,510
doses include fluid retention anxiety

560
00:27:10,780 --> 00:27:07,870
adverse nervous system symptoms

561
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:10,790
testicular tumors ovarian

562
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:13,930
hyperstimulation a very an enlargement

563
00:27:21,790 --> 00:27:17,890
rupture of ovarian cysts multiple births

564
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:21,800
elevated liver enzymes hypothyroidism

565
00:27:27,850 --> 00:27:24,530
and arterial thrombosis

566
00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:27,860
in rare cases to sum up it is clear that

567
00:27:33,130 --> 00:27:30,950
the HCG diet in no way represents

568
00:27:36,250 --> 00:27:33,140
evidence-based practice and there is

569
00:27:39,220 --> 00:27:36,260
also a potential for harm but the thing

570
00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:39,230
is skeptics own listeners your critical

571
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:41,990
thinkers and informed consumers so you

572
00:27:47,130 --> 00:27:45,170
were probably never likely to fall for

573
00:27:50,620 --> 00:27:47,140
this weight-loss scam in the first place

574
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:50,630
however many have and sometimes under

575
00:27:56,590 --> 00:27:54,110
the advice of their treating doctor so

576
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:56,600
if you or someone you know is prescribed

577
00:28:00,280 --> 00:27:58,010
the HCG diet

578
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:00,290
by a registered health professional I

579
00:28:04,780 --> 00:28:02,480
encourage you to report it to the

580
00:28:08,010 --> 00:28:04,790
healthcare complaints body in your state

581
00:28:10,690 --> 00:28:08,020
my own research for this report

582
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:10,700
incidentally uncovered for upper

583
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:13,760
registered general practitioners who are

584
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:17,570
currently prescribing the HCG diet also

585
00:28:23,170 --> 00:28:20,960
keep in mind if the HCG diet is being

586
00:28:26,860 --> 00:28:23,180
prescribed to patients during a Medicare

587
00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:26,870
funded consultation our taxpayer funded

588
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:29,710
health system is paying for it

589
00:28:36,010 --> 00:28:33,010
now finally skeptics own listeners

590
00:28:37,420 --> 00:28:36,020
before I end off today I trust that the

591
00:28:40,450 --> 00:28:37,430
majority of listeners have had a

592
00:28:41,620 --> 00:28:40,460
peaceful holiday however for those of

593
00:28:44,350 --> 00:28:41,630
you who have been affected by the

594
00:28:47,050 --> 00:28:44,360
bushfires in Australia my heart goes out

595
00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:47,060
to you and my deepest gratitude goes to

596
00:28:50,890 --> 00:28:48,760
the volunteers and community

597
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:50,900
organizations that have been the true

598
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:53,690
heroes while Australia has been gripped

599
00:28:59,260 --> 00:28:56,930
by this crisis so as always thank you

600
00:29:01,340 --> 00:28:59,270
for listening this has been mandelino

601
00:29:12,370 --> 00:29:01,350
the diet sceptic

602
00:29:12,380 --> 00:29:18,619
[Music]

603
00:29:24,330 --> 00:29:20,759
Oregonians for science and reason

604
00:29:27,989 --> 00:29:24,340
Portland present strange energies and

605
00:29:33,570 --> 00:29:27,999
even stranger devices an evening with

606
00:29:35,999 --> 00:29:33,580
Richard Saunders Monday the 20th of

607
00:29:40,019 --> 00:29:36,009
January 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.

608
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:40,029
Alberta Street pub which is at 103 6

609
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:44,369
Northeast Alberta Street Portland Oregon

610
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:47,440
grab a beer or dinner and join fellow

611
00:29:54,529 --> 00:29:49,690
scientific sceptics for an evening with

612
00:30:01,139 --> 00:29:58,590
can mysterious new-age energies make

613
00:30:04,169 --> 00:30:01,149
your car run better rid your house of

614
00:30:06,419 --> 00:30:04,179
rising damp diagnose your illnesses

615
00:30:09,060 --> 00:30:06,429
improve your performance on the sporting

616
00:30:12,060 --> 00:30:09,070
field and even make your wine taste

617
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:12,070
better saunas looks at claims being made

618
00:30:18,139 --> 00:30:15,279
in the name of energies unknown to

619
00:30:21,309 --> 00:30:20,089
now I have to read this bit because you

620
00:30:24,049 --> 00:30:21,319
know it's in the blurb about

621
00:30:25,939 --> 00:30:24,059
richardsaunders international expert on

622
00:30:28,459 --> 00:30:25,949
scientific skepticism Richard Saunders

623
00:30:31,639 --> 00:30:28,469
from Sydney Australia is the host of the

624
00:30:34,009 --> 00:30:31,649
weekly podcast the skeptic zone now in

625
00:30:35,989 --> 00:30:34,019
its 12th year he is a documentary

626
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:35,999
filmmaker and one of the stars of the

627
00:30:41,179 --> 00:30:38,849
top-rated Australian paranormal TV show

628
00:30:43,879 --> 00:30:41,189
the one the search for Australia's most

629
00:30:44,539 --> 00:30:43,889
gifted psychic Oh under federal ever

630
00:30:46,999 --> 00:30:44,549
come back

631
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:47,009
he's an origami expert and invented

632
00:30:52,309 --> 00:30:50,369
origami Pegasus for James Randi he is a

633
00:30:55,129 --> 00:30:52,319
life member of Australian skeptics Inc a

634
00:30:57,199 --> 00:30:55,139
center for skeptical inquiry CSI fellow

635
00:30:58,989 --> 00:30:57,209
and was part of the James Randi

636
00:31:03,729 --> 00:30:58,999
Educational Foundation

637
00:31:06,859 --> 00:31:03,739
$1,000,000 prize committee that's

638
00:31:11,989 --> 00:31:06,869
strange energies and even stranger

639
00:31:14,779 --> 00:31:11,999
devices an evening with me Monday the

640
00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:14,789
20th of January Portland Oregon at the

641
00:31:23,970 --> 00:31:18,809
Alberta Street pub and I will add a link

642
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:37,610
[Music]

643
00:31:50,150 --> 00:31:48,720
life is wild with Michelle Franklin

644
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:50,160
[Music]

645
00:31:55,230 --> 00:31:52,480
there's something undeniably beautiful

646
00:31:58,110 --> 00:31:55,240
about a massive boulder perfectly

647
00:31:59,610 --> 00:31:58,120
balanced on top of a smaller one defying

648
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,620
millions of years of weather

649
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:01,600
seismic activity and who knows what

650
00:32:06,150 --> 00:32:03,370
human or animal activity that might have

651
00:32:07,770 --> 00:32:06,160
occurred in that time and in the

652
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:07,780
tradition of the Royal Society for

653
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:09,490
putting things on top of other things of

654
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:17,890
course we like to copy this originally

655
00:32:21,780 --> 00:32:19,330
rock stacking was done to mark

656
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:21,790
significant cultural sites or even just

657
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:24,640
as markers to help with navigation these

658
00:32:28,410 --> 00:32:26,290
days it's pretty common to find small

659
00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:28,420
rock stacks marking trails or directing

660
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:30,070
Walker's in areas where it's easy to

661
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:32,530
become lost but you can't always trust

662
00:32:36,390 --> 00:32:33,970
the rocks that you find on your walk

663
00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:36,400
because we as a species have decided

664
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:38,230
that putting rocks on top of other rocks

665
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:41,530
is pretty so we need to do more of it

666
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:46,930
wherever we can and I'm not denying the

667
00:32:51,180 --> 00:32:48,490
innate beauty of a stack of nicely

668
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:51,190
rounded River stones defying gravity and

669
00:32:54,530 --> 00:32:53,050
standing tall against a background of

670
00:32:57,030 --> 00:32:54,540
ferns and waterfalls

671
00:32:59,310 --> 00:32:57,040
maybe it's the apparent magic of the

672
00:33:01,410 --> 00:32:59,320
site defying the laws of nature and

673
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:01,420
persevering when logic and instinct

674
00:33:04,410 --> 00:33:02,710
tells you that the whole thing should

675
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:04,420
topple into the river and return to

676
00:33:09,570 --> 00:33:07,120
chaos there is of course opposition to

677
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:09,580
this activity and the defense that I've

678
00:33:14,090 --> 00:33:11,470
seen when people challenge it on social

679
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:14,100
media is the classic what's the harm

680
00:33:17,370 --> 00:33:16,810
I'm not taking leaving or breaking

681
00:33:20,850 --> 00:33:17,380
anything

682
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:20,860
I'm just moving a few rocks a bit so

683
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:23,200
what is the harm what's the harm in

684
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:25,570
moving five rocks making a pretty little

685
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:28,240
Tower what's the harm in creating a

686
00:33:33,270 --> 00:33:30,570
little monument in a remote location

687
00:33:35,130 --> 00:33:33,280
what's the harm in marking this place to

688
00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:35,140
show everyone who comes after me that I

689
00:33:39,930 --> 00:33:38,020
got here first if you can put us

690
00:33:42,450 --> 00:33:39,940
the arrogance of wanting to claim a wild

691
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:42,460
space for yourself try to imagine doing

692
00:33:48,270 --> 00:33:46,210
it you decide to go visit that ancient

693
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:48,280
piece of nature in that remote location

694
00:33:52,860 --> 00:33:50,530
that giant boulder balanced on top of

695
00:33:55,530 --> 00:33:52,870
the smaller Boulder that's been there

696
00:33:57,570 --> 00:33:55,540
for millions of years and you make the

697
00:34:00,380 --> 00:33:57,580
difficult Trek planning to find this

698
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:00,390
pristine piece of untouched beauty and

699
00:34:06,390 --> 00:34:03,970
build your little monument beside it and

700
00:34:09,060 --> 00:34:06,400
luckily thanks to modern GPS technology

701
00:34:10,919 --> 00:34:09,070
you know when to ignore the false trail

702
00:34:12,899 --> 00:34:10,929
markers that the previous walkers have

703
00:34:14,820 --> 00:34:12,909
left so you don't end up lost in the

704
00:34:16,889 --> 00:34:14,830
wilderness and you achieve your goal of

705
00:34:19,830 --> 00:34:16,899
reaching this remote and untouched piece

706
00:34:22,460 --> 00:34:19,840
of nature only to find 72 rock stacks

707
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:22,470
piled up neatly at the base of the site

708
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:24,490
some of them intricate and beautiful

709
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:26,800
some of them falling down and returning

710
00:34:31,409 --> 00:34:29,110
into the ground and some where there was

711
00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:31,419
barely any effort at all and their only

712
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:33,310
real purpose in existing is to make sure

713
00:34:37,169 --> 00:34:35,050
that you know that someone was here

714
00:34:38,930 --> 00:34:37,179
before you and marked this place and

715
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:38,940
claimed the win for themselves

716
00:34:43,139 --> 00:34:41,050
okay fine there might be a bit dramatic

717
00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:43,149
but honestly when I go to a natural

718
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:45,730
place the last thing I want to see is

719
00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:48,159
this modern supposedly eco-friendly

720
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:50,260
version of graffiti saying I was here

721
00:34:55,710 --> 00:34:54,010
first so I'm not going to do that but

722
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:55,720
say you really like the look of rocks on

723
00:34:59,340 --> 00:34:57,280
top of other rocks and you really want

724
00:35:01,680 --> 00:34:59,350
to take that once-in-a-lifetime photo

725
00:35:04,109 --> 00:35:01,690
when you get to some remote untouched

726
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:04,119
place what if you do it and then

727
00:35:07,290 --> 00:35:05,920
afterwards you carefully replace all the

728
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:07,300
rocks back where they used to be

729
00:35:13,590 --> 00:35:10,930
is that okay in some circumstances I

730
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:13,600
might say yes especially if it truly is

731
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:15,490
a remote place where you might be the

732
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:17,290
only person there for several weeks or

733
00:35:20,910 --> 00:35:19,450
months it's possible that there's no

734
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:20,920
harm in moving some rocks and then

735
00:35:25,890 --> 00:35:23,680
moving them back again but in many cases

736
00:35:27,330 --> 00:35:25,900
there are circumstances that mean that

737
00:35:30,690 --> 00:35:27,340
this activity would actually be quite

738
00:35:32,220 --> 00:35:30,700
harmful if visitor traffic's high or if

739
00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:32,230
the ecosystem is particularly vulnerable

740
00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:35,230
or if there's an endangered species with

741
00:35:38,970 --> 00:35:36,910
an incredibly small range which is

742
00:35:41,849 --> 00:35:38,980
dependent on that one little rocky

743
00:35:44,070 --> 00:35:41,859
outcrop in those circumstances the

744
00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:44,080
answer would most definitely be no and

745
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:46,750
I'm certainly not going to pretend to

746
00:35:50,970 --> 00:35:48,490
know the difference between when it's

747
00:35:51,870 --> 00:35:50,980
okay and when it's not there's a lot of

748
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:51,880
sacred sites

749
00:35:56,190 --> 00:35:53,680
the world where it's not okay to move

750
00:35:58,620 --> 00:35:56,200
rocks and not all of them are marked and

751
00:36:00,269 --> 00:35:58,630
advertised that one little rock might

752
00:36:02,670 --> 00:36:00,279
mean something really important to

753
00:36:05,099 --> 00:36:02,680
someone that one small Rock might not

754
00:36:08,609 --> 00:36:05,109
look like much to us but to an octopus

755
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:08,619
or to a skink or to a baby yeah B or the

756
00:36:12,839 --> 00:36:10,750
microscopic algae that's chosen that one

757
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:12,849
rock is its shelter it could be the

758
00:36:17,069 --> 00:36:15,369
difference between life and death to the

759
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:17,079
gecko that's invested its entire

760
00:36:21,299 --> 00:36:18,880
breeding cycle in that one little

761
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:21,309
microcosm of safety and it's laid its

762
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:23,170
two precious little eggs under that one

763
00:36:27,269 --> 00:36:24,970
small rock it could be the difference

764
00:36:30,089 --> 00:36:27,279
between reproducing and disappearing

765
00:36:32,009 --> 00:36:30,099
from the system if you really want to

766
00:36:33,779 --> 00:36:32,019
know the effects of rock stacking you

767
00:36:36,089 --> 00:36:33,789
can just google the practice there's

768
00:36:37,769 --> 00:36:36,099
endless examples of animals and

769
00:36:40,019 --> 00:36:37,779
ecosystems that are being adversely

770
00:36:41,490 --> 00:36:40,029
impacted but you don't really need to

771
00:36:44,249 --> 00:36:41,500
know the specific impacts because

772
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:44,259
there's too many variables for any one

773
00:36:49,249 --> 00:36:46,930
person to understand all of it it's

774
00:36:51,749 --> 00:36:49,259
better to think of it at a broader scale

775
00:36:53,670 --> 00:36:51,759
don't think of the individual animals

776
00:36:55,019 --> 00:36:53,680
who are losing their homes or being

777
00:36:57,569 --> 00:36:55,029
stressed out from the frequent

778
00:37:00,329 --> 00:36:57,579
intrusions into their safe spaces think

779
00:37:02,069 --> 00:37:00,339
of the whole ecosystem the impact at

780
00:37:04,559 --> 00:37:02,079
this level are there in all situations

781
00:37:06,420 --> 00:37:04,569
but it's a lot easier to visualize if

782
00:37:10,259 --> 00:37:06,430
you consider the situation in a

783
00:37:12,210 --> 00:37:10,269
slow-moving Rocky Creek we've all seen

784
00:37:14,339 --> 00:37:12,220
the photos of the smooth river stones

785
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:14,349
carefully selected from the creek beds

786
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:17,440
lifted and stacked some of the rock

787
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:20,650
stacks are truly beautiful too but the

788
00:37:25,230 --> 00:37:22,240
beauty as beautiful as these works of

789
00:37:27,839 --> 00:37:25,240
art are they're constructed of rocks and

790
00:37:30,930 --> 00:37:27,849
other obstacles which serve an important

791
00:37:33,660 --> 00:37:30,940
purpose in the water where they create

792
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:33,670
tiny micro habitats of still water where

793
00:37:37,950 --> 00:37:36,490
life's able to hold on not just an

794
00:37:40,349 --> 00:37:37,960
individual fish that could swim to

795
00:37:42,269 --> 00:37:40,359
another rock if there's any left but all

796
00:37:45,390 --> 00:37:42,279
sorts of animals and other life forms

797
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:45,400
some of them too small to see use these

798
00:37:49,769 --> 00:37:47,710
rocks as nurseries to protect their

799
00:37:53,339 --> 00:37:49,779
vulnerable young and this has an

800
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:53,349
incredible knock-on effect imagine one

801
00:37:57,690 --> 00:37:55,599
section of a stream that is accessible

802
00:37:59,759 --> 00:37:57,700
to humans so the rocks all get

803
00:38:02,400 --> 00:37:59,769
periodically stacked photographed and

804
00:38:04,829 --> 00:38:02,410
perhaps even returned it might look

805
00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:04,839
pristine and untouched but underneath

806
00:38:07,470 --> 00:38:05,710
those rocks

807
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:07,480
there's fewer eggs for the next

808
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:09,130
generation of fish there's fewer

809
00:38:15,570 --> 00:38:12,490
tadpoles sheltering beside them in the

810
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:15,580
next generation of frogs and less food

811
00:38:20,010 --> 00:38:17,650
to support pioneer species that are

812
00:38:22,829 --> 00:38:20,020
attempting to recolonize this disturbed

813
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:22,839
habitat birds stopped visiting frogs

814
00:38:27,390 --> 00:38:25,450
stop breeding and animals are

815
00:38:29,099 --> 00:38:27,400
essentially driven out of the area and

816
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:29,109
it becomes an empty space where life

817
00:38:33,140 --> 00:38:30,880
doesn't reestablish because the

818
00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:33,150
footholds keep getting shifted about

819
00:38:39,150 --> 00:38:35,950
then imagine this practice continues for

820
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:39,160
three or four years every week say ten

821
00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:42,400
people shift five rocks each and some of

822
00:38:46,020 --> 00:38:44,800
them carefully replace them again only

823
00:38:48,450 --> 00:38:46,030
they figure it doesn't really matter

824
00:38:51,210 --> 00:38:48,460
exactly where each rock sits as long as

825
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:51,220
it's somewhere there so over time the

826
00:38:55,230 --> 00:38:52,810
rocks that were originally sitting on

827
00:38:56,910 --> 00:38:55,240
the banks or around the shallow bins get

828
00:39:01,410 --> 00:38:56,920
slowly shifted to the middle of the

829
00:39:03,390 --> 00:39:01,420
stream with the rest of them that's 50

830
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:03,400
rocks being lifted and then chucked back

831
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:06,250
into the water with the subsequent 50 or

832
00:39:10,020 --> 00:39:08,410
so half cups of sand and silk being

833
00:39:12,750 --> 00:39:10,030
disturbed each time and washed

834
00:39:15,329 --> 00:39:12,760
downstream over time the flow of the

835
00:39:17,460 --> 00:39:15,339
stream changes the edges begin to erode

836
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:17,470
away the stream becomes deeper and

837
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:20,050
faster moving access is impacted so

838
00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:21,609
small animals have to find some other

839
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:23,950
place to come to the water and pioneer

840
00:39:29,099 --> 00:39:26,170
plant species that are trying to take

841
00:39:31,380 --> 00:39:29,109
root never establish as this is

842
00:39:32,820 --> 00:39:31,390
happening people continue to lift their

843
00:39:34,530 --> 00:39:32,830
couple of rocks each and take their

844
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:34,540
photos and then chuck the rocks back in

845
00:39:39,390 --> 00:39:37,450
the water so that over time the fast

846
00:39:42,089 --> 00:39:39,400
flowing stream loses its layer of

847
00:39:43,710 --> 00:39:42,099
organic material or the soft sand washes

848
00:39:46,109 --> 00:39:43,720
away and you're left with a deep

849
00:39:47,970 --> 00:39:46,119
fast-moving stream with none of the

850
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:47,980
original life that had been dependent on

851
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:50,800
the slow-moving shallow Rocky Creek this

852
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:53,490
is a habitat transforming disturbance

853
00:40:00,060 --> 00:39:56,890
then consider what happens if we decide

854
00:40:01,770 --> 00:40:00,070
that the fast-moving deep streams are no

855
00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:01,780
fun for splashing about in and

856
00:40:06,570 --> 00:40:04,390
collecting rocks so we move downstream

857
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:06,580
to the next slow-moving shallow rocky

858
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:09,970
portion of the creek and then a few

859
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:11,770
years later after we've converted that

860
00:40:16,140 --> 00:40:13,839
one too we just move on to the next one

861
00:40:19,059 --> 00:40:16,150
this seems to be the way that we behave

862
00:40:20,620 --> 00:40:19,069
as a species the individual person

863
00:40:22,989 --> 00:40:20,630
gives an area similar to how they found

864
00:40:25,809 --> 00:40:22,999
it but over time the collective impact

865
00:40:29,199 --> 00:40:25,819
of many people is that the area is

866
00:40:31,839 --> 00:40:29,209
changed in small steps we disturb an

867
00:40:34,059 --> 00:40:31,849
area to the point where it's not what we

868
00:40:35,890 --> 00:40:34,069
came there for so we push a little bit

869
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:35,900
further and further into the natural

870
00:40:39,969 --> 00:40:38,089
spaces to try and find that last

871
00:40:43,390 --> 00:40:39,979
remaining untouched piece of wilderness

872
00:40:45,339 --> 00:40:43,400
and I'm not claiming innocence in this I

873
00:40:47,199 --> 00:40:45,349
love to go that little bit further and

874
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:47,209
find places where I can feel like I'm

875
00:40:52,299 --> 00:40:49,089
the only person who's ever been there

876
00:40:54,819 --> 00:40:52,309
it's okay to explore but please remember

877
00:40:57,549 --> 00:40:54,829
that if you're doing it so is everybody

878
00:41:00,339 --> 00:40:57,559
else and while it may not make any

879
00:41:03,939 --> 00:41:00,349
difference if if I personally shift five

880
00:41:06,339 --> 00:41:03,949
or ten rocks I'm not confident enough to

881
00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:06,349
make that call I don't understand the

882
00:41:10,599 --> 00:41:08,569
intricacies of that specific place so

883
00:41:12,609 --> 00:41:10,609
well as to know that my actions aren't

884
00:41:14,650 --> 00:41:12,619
going to have a significant effect on

885
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:14,660
the survival of an endangered insect or

886
00:41:22,630 --> 00:41:19,690
some rare species of fungi I don't have

887
00:41:24,430 --> 00:41:22,640
that kind of expertise and I suspect

888
00:41:27,459 --> 00:41:24,440
that if we're being really honest I

889
00:41:28,689 --> 00:41:27,469
don't think anyone would be able to say

890
00:41:31,930 --> 00:41:28,699
that they know for sure what the

891
00:41:33,910 --> 00:41:31,940
outcomes if their actions will be so my

892
00:41:35,979 --> 00:41:33,920
response would be to err on the side of

893
00:41:36,819 --> 00:41:35,989
assuming that all my actions have

894
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:36,829
consequences

895
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:38,930
and I'm gonna try to minimize the

896
00:41:44,739 --> 00:41:42,079
impacts as much as possible you don't

897
00:41:47,170 --> 00:41:44,749
need to mark your presence and leave

898
00:41:49,150 --> 00:41:47,180
your claim behind you don't need to

899
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:49,160
change a wild space to make it better

900
00:41:54,549 --> 00:41:51,920
just take a photo of it as it is and

901
00:41:56,739 --> 00:41:54,559
leave it how you found it so that the

902
00:41:58,420 --> 00:41:56,749
next person can do the same thing and

903
00:42:00,489 --> 00:41:58,430
get the same satisfaction that you did

904
00:42:02,799 --> 00:42:00,499
without having to move past the

905
00:42:05,019 --> 00:42:02,809
disturbed space to find that next bit of

906
00:42:06,820 --> 00:42:05,029
untouched wilderness beyond and start

907
00:42:18,109 --> 00:42:06,830
impacting on that too

908
00:42:20,670 --> 00:42:18,119
[Music]

909
00:42:24,410 --> 00:42:20,680
now here's some news from our friends at

910
00:42:27,870 --> 00:42:24,420
the epic skeptics skeptics cafe on

911
00:42:31,799 --> 00:42:27,880
Monday the 20th of January the skeptics

912
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:31,809
cafe present framing the capricious the

913
00:42:39,420 --> 00:42:34,450
build responds to infectious diseases in

914
00:42:41,490 --> 00:42:39,430
Victoria between 1850 and 1950 care

915
00:42:44,250 --> 00:42:41,500
indoors is a registered nurse with a

916
00:42:46,559 --> 00:42:44,260
background in cardiac education research

917
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:46,569
and practice outside of work one of her

918
00:42:50,370 --> 00:42:48,450
diversions is architectural history

919
00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:50,380
professionally one of Karen's main

920
00:42:55,859 --> 00:42:53,500
interests is around factors influencing

921
00:42:58,859 --> 00:42:55,869
practice these seemingly disparate

922
00:43:00,720 --> 00:42:58,869
elements have converged in a PhD

923
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:00,730
candidate er in the Faculty of

924
00:43:05,660 --> 00:43:02,410
architecture at the University of

925
00:43:08,430 --> 00:43:05,670
Melbourne titled framing the capricious

926
00:43:12,059 --> 00:43:08,440
the build responds to infectious

927
00:43:16,410 --> 00:43:12,069
diseases in Victoria between 1850 and

928
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:16,420
1950 the study reveals multiple and

929
00:43:21,539 --> 00:43:18,450
sometimes conflicting political

930
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:21,549
scientific and social influences on the

931
00:43:26,430 --> 00:43:24,160
number and type of buildings provided

932
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:26,440
and some interesting differences in

933
00:43:31,380 --> 00:43:28,410
management strategies for certain

934
00:43:33,809 --> 00:43:31,390
infectious diseases these revelations

935
00:43:37,799 --> 00:43:33,819
resonate within the contemporary

936
00:43:40,609 --> 00:43:37,809
practice setting in general and in ideas

937
00:43:43,470 --> 00:43:40,619
about infectious diseases in particular

938
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:43,480
always a fascinating night at the

939
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:46,960
skeptics cafe and that is at the Dan

940
00:43:53,789 --> 00:43:50,770
O'Connell hotel 225 canning Street

941
00:43:58,900 --> 00:43:53,799
Carleton for more information just look

942
00:43:58,910 --> 00:44:07,380
[Music]

943
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:12,370
here's Maynard spooky action at a

944
00:44:20,350 --> 00:44:18,040
if I want to ask you now Steve when you

945
00:44:22,330 --> 00:44:20,360
do these things you or you go get farmed

946
00:44:24,460 --> 00:44:22,340
out to different tables right what is

947
00:44:26,109 --> 00:44:24,470
the one thing that listeners either want

948
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:26,119
to know about the people from skeptics

949
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:27,680
guide or is there one episode or

950
00:44:30,820 --> 00:44:29,450
something you did that they go well what

951
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:30,830
was that all about is there a typical

952
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:33,650
question you get from fans they always

953
00:44:37,090 --> 00:44:35,570
ask me how I do as much work as I do

954
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:37,100
like I get that question every single

955
00:44:40,690 --> 00:44:38,510
time I'm at a conference

956
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:40,700
yeah you've actually got a career and

957
00:44:44,100 --> 00:44:42,050
you do all this editing and everything

958
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:44,110
so well how the hell do you do it

959
00:44:48,010 --> 00:44:46,640
it's nothing magic to it there's certain

960
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:48,020
certain number of hours in a week and I

961
00:44:53,050 --> 00:44:50,720
work you know [\h__\h] it's actually not

962
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:53,060
uncommon for academics to work 70 or 80

963
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:54,800
hours a week if you can combine all of

964
00:44:58,030 --> 00:44:56,090
the stuff that they do do you actually

965
00:44:59,650 --> 00:44:58,040
have a mocked out schedule for yourself

966
00:45:01,720 --> 00:44:59,660
okay I'm gonna study for this period of

967
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:01,730
time this set yeah yeah absolutely

968
00:45:05,380 --> 00:45:04,010
is that fixed or is it pretty flexible I

969
00:45:08,770 --> 00:45:05,390
mean it's all my own time so it's

970
00:45:11,470 --> 00:45:08,780
flexible but I there's like I know when

971
00:45:17,170 --> 00:45:11,480
I'm doing certain work for the show and

972
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:17,180
I also like I know I have to finish my

973
00:45:22,270 --> 00:45:19,490
certain work at a certain time table

974
00:45:24,849 --> 00:45:22,280
it's like I'll say okay I won't you know

975
00:45:26,170 --> 00:45:24,859
do any recreation until I've gotten this

976
00:45:28,060 --> 00:45:26,180
much done because otherwise I'm not

977
00:45:29,230 --> 00:45:28,070
gonna have time to do it so just a

978
00:45:30,580 --> 00:45:29,240
little bit of discipline there's there's

979
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:30,590
a plenty of hours in the week to do a

980
00:45:33,820 --> 00:45:32,450
lot more work than people think I'd like

981
00:45:35,470 --> 00:45:33,830
to congratulate you on an essay you're

982
00:45:37,390 --> 00:45:35,480
at a long time ago about how to argue

983
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:37,400
that's great that is really good yeah

984
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:39,770
yeah that's a fun one okay and actually

985
00:45:42,490 --> 00:45:41,210
what were you just asking to do about

986
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:42,500
there you obviously had a question

987
00:45:47,260 --> 00:45:44,690
talking about yeah they'll serves in

988
00:45:49,450 --> 00:45:47,270
Australia and how we have we have medico

989
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:49,460
for all but we also have a private

990
00:45:57,250 --> 00:45:53,119
option but it doesn't require any checks

991
00:45:59,190 --> 00:45:57,260
of our previous medical conditions or as

992
00:46:01,690 --> 00:45:59,200
like in America you can get you can get

993
00:46:02,859 --> 00:46:01,700
prevented from going on to the private

994
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:02,869
health insurance because of pre-existing

995
00:46:07,300 --> 00:46:05,810
health yeah as a physician had how would

996
00:46:08,890 --> 00:46:07,310
you feel if we had a Medicare style

997
00:46:10,599 --> 00:46:08,900
thing in the u.s. would that be a good

998
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:10,609
thing or not so I think we need to get

999
00:46:14,740 --> 00:46:13,040
to universal health coverage I don't

1000
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:14,750
think we can go straight to a hundred

1001
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:16,880
percent government program because it's

1002
00:46:20,220 --> 00:46:18,250
too

1003
00:46:22,109 --> 00:46:20,230
radically change for our system need to

1004
00:46:23,490 --> 00:46:22,119
do stage of people suspicious of the

1005
00:46:25,620 --> 00:46:23,500
government having that kind of control

1006
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:25,630
and powers that it it's not the power

1007
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:28,930
it's the bureaucracy right it's just

1008
00:46:34,050 --> 00:46:31,570
that could they pull it off like when

1009
00:46:35,790 --> 00:46:34,060
they rolled out Obamacare it was a bit

1010
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:35,800
of a disaster the website didn't work

1011
00:46:39,060 --> 00:46:36,400
you know

1012
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:39,070
now imagine that times 100 are they

1013
00:46:42,330 --> 00:46:40,330
going to pull it off I think most

1014
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:42,340
Americans are rightly sceptical of their

1015
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:44,710
ability to just suddenly take control of

1016
00:46:51,180 --> 00:46:47,290
20% of our economy and without a hitch

1017
00:46:54,030 --> 00:46:51,190
yeah so I mean everyone agrees we need

1018
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:54,040
universal health coverage I think we

1019
00:46:58,260 --> 00:46:56,410
should get there in stages to make sure

1020
00:47:00,980 --> 00:46:58,270
that the system doesn't collapse while

1021
00:47:02,970 --> 00:47:00,990
we're trying to do a radical change and

1022
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:02,980
what did you think about Mary Ann

1023
00:47:07,140 --> 00:47:05,050
Williams is a Democratic candidate there

1024
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:07,150
she was a bit foolish I thought yeah the

1025
00:47:09,810 --> 00:47:08,170
skeptics would have had a bit of fun

1026
00:47:13,260 --> 00:47:09,820
with that yeah I know she was like

1027
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:13,270
loving light love yeah I'm glad she kind

1028
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:14,770
of faded into the background I mean she

1029
00:47:17,460 --> 00:47:16,210
was a bit of an embarrassment to be

1030
00:47:18,810 --> 00:47:17,470
honest with you do you think you got a

1031
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:18,820
Democrat that can beat Trump at the

1032
00:47:24,839 --> 00:47:22,410
moment I think most of them probably can

1033
00:47:27,420 --> 00:47:24,849
we won't know until they go head-to-head

1034
00:47:28,770 --> 00:47:27,430
in the general like now until it's a

1035
00:47:30,300 --> 00:47:28,780
binary choice you don't really know

1036
00:47:32,940 --> 00:47:30,310
what's going to happen and we have to

1037
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:32,950
see how the Republicans attack the

1038
00:47:37,410 --> 00:47:35,170
Democratic candidate and how effective

1039
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:37,420
they are pushing back so we're you know

1040
00:47:43,140 --> 00:47:40,570
I think you know at least half the

1041
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:43,150
country is pretty hopeful that that will

1042
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:44,890
happen it will be three million more

1043
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:46,410
than actually voted for the other guy

1044
00:47:49,849 --> 00:47:48,720
hopefull yeah look thank you very much

1045
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:49,859
for your time I'll let you guys get back

1046
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:51,210
to it are you getting that universal

1047
00:47:58,760 --> 00:47:56,880
healthcare argument you are having just

1048
00:48:00,020 --> 00:47:58,770
happen to have a habitat chat to Steve

1049
00:48:01,460 --> 00:48:00,030
because all you get farmed out to

1050
00:48:03,980 --> 00:48:01,470
different tables so you get to meet

1051
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:03,990
everybody like I asked him what is the

1052
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:06,000
one thing people always ask you or they

1053
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:07,530
want to know or there's an episode

1054
00:48:10,609 --> 00:48:09,210
what's the thing people always want to

1055
00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:10,619
know when they get you one-on-one about

1056
00:48:15,170 --> 00:48:13,500
the show about the show I mean I think

1057
00:48:17,420 --> 00:48:15,180
they want to know what it's like to make

1058
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:17,430
the sausage you know like what's it like

1059
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:19,770
working behind the scenes and I usually

1060
00:48:23,690 --> 00:48:20,970
end up telling them something funny

1061
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:23,700
about Steve but yes because I know Steve

1062
00:48:28,039 --> 00:48:26,250
as a human not as you know the head of

1063
00:48:29,870 --> 00:48:28,049
the edge to you so Steve's my brother

1064
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:29,880
and he's like yeah he's an [\h__\h] you

1065
00:48:33,799 --> 00:48:30,960
know what I mean he's my brother

1066
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:33,809
you felt like so we we fight we get no

1067
00:48:36,740 --> 00:48:35,609
arguments you know we disagree on a lot

1068
00:48:38,990 --> 00:48:36,750
of stuff we have totally different

1069
00:48:41,329 --> 00:48:39,000
tastes but at the end of the day you

1070
00:48:42,890 --> 00:48:41,339
know we our mission is exactly in sync

1071
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:42,900
and we love and respect each other

1072
00:48:45,859 --> 00:48:44,640
it's gonna say this is Steve but because

1073
00:48:48,319 --> 00:48:45,869
he looks a bit straight or sad to you

1074
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:48,329
your parents your father they had

1075
00:48:51,620 --> 00:48:50,160
something magic going on with the way

1076
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:51,630
they've grown your boys up and the way

1077
00:48:54,500 --> 00:48:53,010
they showed ya there's something about I

1078
00:48:54,769 --> 00:48:54,510
don't know much about your background at

1079
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:54,779
all

1080
00:48:59,089 --> 00:48:56,010
but something went on in that family

1081
00:49:00,500 --> 00:48:59,099
that just clicked I my mom did this

1082
00:49:03,890 --> 00:49:00,510
thing I think we said it before on the

1083
00:49:06,109 --> 00:49:03,900
show she had a word of the week she had

1084
00:49:07,730 --> 00:49:06,119
a little marquee and she would hand put

1085
00:49:09,710 --> 00:49:07,740
it in there and like so there was all

1086
00:49:10,579 --> 00:49:09,720
that learning was a part of just what we

1087
00:49:11,809 --> 00:49:10,589
did in the house

1088
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:11,819
they kind of come home and they'd be a

1089
00:49:14,750 --> 00:49:13,260
would they're gonna be your job to find

1090
00:49:16,430 --> 00:49:14,760
out what I meant yeah so she would you

1091
00:49:18,529 --> 00:49:16,440
know she she would talk to us about it

1092
00:49:20,029 --> 00:49:18,539
and you know we'd encourage us to use it

1093
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:20,039
and she'd be saying it and everything

1094
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:22,890
but that was like just a little sample

1095
00:49:25,279 --> 00:49:23,910
of all the different things that we

1096
00:49:27,380 --> 00:49:25,289
would do we would always be doing like

1097
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:27,390
puzzles and things like that so there

1098
00:49:32,539 --> 00:49:30,450
was a lot of hands-on stuff like doing

1099
00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:32,549
doing things as a family and my dad I

1100
00:49:35,390 --> 00:49:33,720
mean from the very beginning that's

1101
00:49:37,039 --> 00:49:35,400
where science fiction came from with all

1102
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:37,049
of us I mean he's the reason why we love

1103
00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:38,910
science so much but he did the right

1104
00:49:42,289 --> 00:49:40,529
thing and he started as I started us off

1105
00:49:44,180 --> 00:49:42,299
with science fiction do you remember

1106
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:44,190
what the show walls was the Twilight

1107
00:49:49,309 --> 00:49:47,490
Zone Trek completed so so there's a few

1108
00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:49,319
things I mean as much as this sounds

1109
00:49:52,849 --> 00:49:50,609
like it's not the right answer but

1110
00:49:54,799 --> 00:49:52,859
remember the show in search of which is

1111
00:49:57,049 --> 00:49:54,809
complete bad it was horrible but we

1112
00:49:59,420 --> 00:49:57,059
would watch and talk about it and we

1113
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:59,430
would watch Star Trek all the time but

1114
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:01,680
we like we would watch lost in space but

1115
00:50:07,310 --> 00:50:03,770
the one that goes all the way back is

1116
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:07,320
not reveal oh hang on so your skepticism

1117
00:50:11,090 --> 00:50:09,210
is due to Leslie Nelson

1118
00:50:13,850 --> 00:50:11,100
I mean you can't believe like we watched

1119
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:13,860
that movie like the first time he showed

1120
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:15,210
it to us my brothers and I ended up

1121
00:50:19,820 --> 00:50:16,650
watching it like three times in a row

1122
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:19,830
and then we talked about like going into

1123
00:50:23,390 --> 00:50:21,330
detail about what was going on behind

1124
00:50:25,310 --> 00:50:23,400
the scenes so there's always a intense

1125
00:50:27,110 --> 00:50:25,320
conversation and then sitting around the

1126
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:27,120
dinner table like we would have these

1127
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:29,130
two our conversations with each other we

1128
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:31,200
get into you know politics and science

1129
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:33,510
topics and everything so my parents set

1130
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:35,250
the tone for all that conversation and

1131
00:50:38,990 --> 00:50:37,650
the show is that conversation that's

1132
00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:39,000
that's not getting ready to do that

1133
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:41,310
module kids I'm already doing it we have

1134
00:50:43,970 --> 00:50:42,510
this thing that we do now I mean they're

1135
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:43,980
young I have a six year old and a four

1136
00:50:47,180 --> 00:50:45,930
year old so we do that what was the best

1137
00:50:48,830 --> 00:50:47,190
thing that happened to you and the worst

1138
00:50:50,210 --> 00:50:48,840
thing that happened to you today and

1139
00:50:51,950 --> 00:50:50,220
then you know you don't just get off by

1140
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:51,960
saying oh I liked school it's like well

1141
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:53,280
what happened what was so good about it

1142
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:55,050
whoo you know we want the details I make

1143
00:50:57,500 --> 00:50:56,160
them kind of dig it even my

1144
00:50:59,480 --> 00:50:57,510
four-year-old like even if she's home

1145
00:51:00,920 --> 00:50:59,490
all day we make her like talk what

1146
00:51:02,510 --> 00:51:00,930
puzzle did you like to do why did you

1147
00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:02,520
like it what happened so we make them

1148
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:04,640
talk and sink and get the gears turning

1149
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:07,050
yeah okay parents you've been told

1150
00:51:09,650 --> 00:51:08,160
that's how you do it

1151
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:09,660
that's how you get a skip nice car to

1152
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:16,250
I'm telling me Clara here and what the

1153
00:51:20,330 --> 00:51:17,760
Lauer loves a bit of magic don't you

1154
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:20,340
absolutely do you like being mystified

1155
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:22,290
also just drive you crazy that you can't

1156
00:51:29,540 --> 00:51:26,490
work Heather stuff happens I think I

1157
00:51:32,090 --> 00:51:29,550
like to at least have a gist of what's

1158
00:51:35,090 --> 00:51:32,100
going on I like to even if I don't know

1159
00:51:38,270 --> 00:51:35,100
the exact details to know that you know

1160
00:51:39,620 --> 00:51:38,280
oh they obviously for speak to that

1161
00:51:42,110 --> 00:51:39,630
particular page or that particular

1162
00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:42,120
person even though I don't know the

1163
00:51:46,190 --> 00:51:44,400
exact details of how they do it I like

1164
00:51:48,140 --> 00:51:46,200
the sort of mental problem of trying to

1165
00:51:50,330 --> 00:51:48,150
work it out but it's it's all in the

1166
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:50,340
presentation and if they're very good at

1167
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:52,050
presenting it and it looks excellent and

1168
00:51:55,700 --> 00:51:54,240
smooth then it's just amazing like if

1169
00:51:57,740 --> 00:51:55,710
you've got a type of trick you like like

1170
00:51:59,960 --> 00:51:57,750
a big special one like the bullet catch

1171
00:52:01,280 --> 00:51:59,970
or small close-up magic with the cards

1172
00:52:03,170 --> 00:52:01,290
where you can see the person do it what

1173
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:03,180
are you prefer the small close-up image

1174
00:52:06,620 --> 00:52:04,890
with their fingers where it's just it's

1175
00:52:08,690 --> 00:52:06,630
so fast and you know that they've had to

1176
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:08,700
put in hours and hours and hours of

1177
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:11,520
practice I love him well palming is the

1178
00:52:14,750 --> 00:52:13,050
one I like the fact that they can hold

1179
00:52:16,310 --> 00:52:14,760
something and appear to move normally

1180
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:16,320
we're in fact I've got an entire credit

1181
00:52:19,070 --> 00:52:17,370
card in their palm and they're waving

1182
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:19,080
their hand around you can't see it they

1183
00:52:22,670 --> 00:52:20,640
don't drop it I remember learning about

1184
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:22,680
that when I was young there and trying

1185
00:52:27,050 --> 00:52:24,480
it and just realizing just how difficult

1186
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:27,060
it was for shoplifting in Manchester

1187
00:52:33,050 --> 00:52:30,800
that'll be handy island yeah yeah yeah

1188
00:52:34,820 --> 00:52:33,060
look we we hear where people really

1189
00:52:36,620 --> 00:52:34,830
start the Atilla truth which is out in

1190
00:52:38,090 --> 00:52:36,630
the foyer while the auctions on course

1191
00:52:40,850 --> 00:52:38,100
lift let's face it everybody doesn't got

1192
00:52:43,940 --> 00:52:40,860
that kind of cash the sceptics have come

1193
00:52:46,220 --> 00:52:43,950
what is your name Lee Murray well have

1194
00:52:48,050 --> 00:52:46,230
you been enjoying awake in so far I have

1195
00:52:51,050 --> 00:52:48,060
indeed it's been lovely what's been the

1196
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:51,060
highlight oh I've been kind of shut away

1197
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:52,800
finishing my talk for a little while so

1198
00:52:55,460 --> 00:52:54,210
I think the conversations that I've been

1199
00:52:59,480 --> 00:52:55,470
having with people at the opening

1200
00:53:00,800 --> 00:52:59,490
function really yeah so I've been having

1201
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:00,810
a lot of people ask me to pick their

1202
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:03,690
accents for them and I got it right

1203
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:05,490
thankfully I managed to get rural South

1204
00:53:09,470 --> 00:53:07,170
Australia what's the hardest one to pick

1205
00:53:11,610 --> 00:53:09,480
as far as Australian dialects go

1206
00:53:14,580 --> 00:53:11,620
hard one probably the difference between

1207
00:53:16,740 --> 00:53:14,590
Victoria and Perth really probably the

1208
00:53:18,330 --> 00:53:16,750
hardest one yeah obviously you're

1209
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:18,340
keeping an eye on the the original

1210
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:20,290
trends what's one of the new words it's

1211
00:53:23,250 --> 00:53:22,000
emerged that we might not have heard yet

1212
00:53:25,530 --> 00:53:23,260
that you've got wow that's a good one oh

1213
00:53:27,090 --> 00:53:25,540
I don't really collect words so much but

1214
00:53:29,820 --> 00:53:27,100
I know that they're voting at the moment

1215
00:53:31,290 --> 00:53:29,830
for the Macquarie I think word of the

1216
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:31,300
year

1217
00:53:36,270 --> 00:53:33,370
and I think one of the one of the

1218
00:53:38,610 --> 00:53:36,280
finalists is cancel culture what I've

1219
00:53:40,850 --> 00:53:38,620
heard so that was a new one on me that's

1220
00:53:42,780 --> 00:53:40,860
interesting I have heard it a bit I

1221
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:42,790
wouldn't have thought maybe they've put

1222
00:53:47,340 --> 00:53:44,890
Macquarie Dixon's more an American kind

1223
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:47,350
of thing yeah I think so I think we tend

1224
00:53:50,610 --> 00:53:48,850
to be picking up a lot of these American

1225
00:53:54,510 --> 00:53:50,620
things thanks to the internet cultural

1226
00:53:56,220 --> 00:53:54,520
imperialism is ruling yeah exactly

1227
00:53:59,010 --> 00:53:56,230
not so much oh grandma just now words

1228
00:54:00,510 --> 00:53:59,020
we're getting over from over is there a

1229
00:54:02,190 --> 00:54:00,520
website we can go to it's got all these

1230
00:54:04,860 --> 00:54:02,200
different dialects on it with examples

1231
00:54:06,540 --> 00:54:04,870
in audio we can have a listen to oh if

1232
00:54:07,620 --> 00:54:06,550
you look up the Macquarie a word map

1233
00:54:09,570 --> 00:54:07,630
you'll see

1234
00:54:10,860 --> 00:54:09,580
let's different vocabulary from places

1235
00:54:13,290 --> 00:54:10,870
and if you look for the Australian

1236
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:13,300
voices website you'll hear explanations

1237
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:14,800
of all the different accents when do you

1238
00:54:18,450 --> 00:54:16,810
get to relax and enjoy the weekend when

1239
00:54:22,410 --> 00:54:18,460
oh I'm speaking first thing tomorrow

1240
00:54:23,580 --> 00:54:22,420
morning so after that yeah so you've got

1241
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:23,590
to get to a bit early so don't have the

1242
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:26,170
furry tongue exactly I lost my voice a

1243
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:27,490
little bit last night now I think I've

1244
00:54:31,620 --> 00:54:29,920
got it back now I rest we can we catch

1245
00:54:33,900 --> 00:54:31,630
you online where can we catch your stuff

1246
00:54:36,450 --> 00:54:33,910
online oh you can catch me on twitter at

1247
00:54:57,650 --> 00:54:36,460
murray lee a or you can catch my website

1248
00:55:00,570 --> 00:55:00,089
thank you for listening to a skeptic

1249
00:55:03,870 --> 00:55:00,580
zone

1250
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:03,880
it's just Richard Saunders now out

1251
00:55:13,770 --> 00:55:08,650
walking around the area here at Thunder

1252
00:55:18,030 --> 00:55:13,780
Wood Ranch I've been having an excellent

1253
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:18,040
stay with Brian and Lisa Dunning truly

1254
00:55:26,820 --> 00:55:22,290
wonderful hosts and as you might guess

1255
00:55:28,620 --> 00:55:26,830
certainly Brian and I being fellow

1256
00:55:31,740 --> 00:55:28,630
podcasters have a lot in common

1257
00:55:33,570 --> 00:55:31,750
and so I think we were able to teach

1258
00:55:36,630 --> 00:55:33,580
each other a few tips and tricks and

1259
00:55:41,010 --> 00:55:36,640
insights and whatever we always do when

1260
00:55:43,830 --> 00:55:41,020
we meet up and of course I certainly

1261
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:43,840
look forward every week to skip toyed

1262
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:47,050
with Brian Dunning coming up on next

1263
00:55:53,609 --> 00:55:50,650
week's show even more from Maine our dad

1264
00:55:56,550 --> 00:55:53,619
skeptic on 2019 he certainly provided us

1265
00:56:01,079 --> 00:55:56,560
all with many many wonderful interviews

1266
00:56:04,550 --> 00:56:01,089
from that convention not so long ago and

1267
00:56:07,290 --> 00:56:04,560
also I hope to bring you a think tank

1268
00:56:10,530 --> 00:56:07,300
which hasn't been on the show for a very

1269
00:56:13,500 --> 00:56:10,540
long time or in this situation it might

1270
00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:13,510
be what Maynard likes to call the hot

1271
00:56:20,540 --> 00:56:16,480
tub of truth so with any luck we'll get

1272
00:56:25,020 --> 00:56:20,550
some interesting people some thinkers

1273
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:25,030
together in a hot tub in the snow set up

1274
00:56:30,810 --> 00:56:28,089
the microphone and record the flow of

1275
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:30,820
conversation doesn't sound too bad

1276
00:56:36,930 --> 00:56:33,760
and sometimes I reflect on the people

1277
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:36,940
you do meet in life it's it's quite

1278
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:40,710
interesting and it can be quite well

1279
00:56:48,300 --> 00:56:44,170
serendipitous when out of the blue

1280
00:56:54,839 --> 00:56:48,310
somebody else comes along and you find a

1281
00:56:57,090 --> 00:56:54,849
very interesting person or people come

1282
00:56:59,520 --> 00:56:57,100
into your life and well

1283
00:57:02,490 --> 00:56:59,530
I guess that's all part of the adventure

1284
00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:02,500
I can just hear the wind now howling

1285
00:57:07,590 --> 00:57:04,510
through the trees it's almost dark

1286
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:07,600
the snow has stopped for the moment all

1287
00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:12,330
very lightly maybe but where it's

1288
00:57:18,810 --> 00:57:15,520
pristine and it's about halfway up my

1289
00:57:21,930 --> 00:57:18,820
leg and there are giant icicles hanging

1290
00:57:27,220 --> 00:57:21,940
off the side of the house and here and

1291
00:57:32,809 --> 00:57:30,500
before I go another thank you

1292
00:57:35,180 --> 00:57:32,819
heartfelt thank you to those people and

1293
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,190
recently some more people who contribute

1294
00:57:41,630 --> 00:57:37,920
to the skeptic zone by paypal or patreon

1295
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:41,640
and without the support of everyday

1296
00:57:47,809 --> 00:57:44,400
people and lots of my friends to which

1297
00:57:48,980 --> 00:57:47,819
I'm very flattered by there would be no

1298
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:48,990
skeptic zone

1299
00:57:55,279 --> 00:57:52,490
thank you to my reporters too who kindly

1300
00:57:59,059 --> 00:57:55,289
send in their excellent reports like

1301
00:58:01,990 --> 00:57:59,069
Mandy Lee and Michelle Franklin who you

1302
00:58:08,650 --> 00:58:02,000
would have heard this week but for now

1303
00:58:14,650 --> 00:58:08,660
as I crunch through the Oregon snow

1304
00:58:24,589 --> 00:58:17,150
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1305
00:58:26,660 --> 00:58:24,599
from Thunder Wood Ranch you've been

1306
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:26,670
listening to the skeptic zone podcast

1307
00:58:36,049 --> 00:58:33,599
please visit our website at wwlp.com tax

1308
00:58:40,069 --> 00:58:36,059
and to access the bat catalog of

1309
00:58:41,779 --> 00:58:40,079
episodes going back to 2008 you can

1310
00:58:44,839 --> 00:58:41,789
follow the skeptic zone podcast on

1311
00:58:47,150 --> 00:58:44,849
twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1312
00:58:48,010 --> 00:58:47,160
facebook page or leave a review on

1313
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:48,020
itunes

1314
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:50,730
you can also support the skeptic zone

1315
00:58:57,500 --> 00:58:54,089
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone

1316
00:58:59,180 --> 00:58:57,510
podcast is an independent production the

1317
00:59:01,309 --> 00:58:59,190
views and opinions expressed on the

1318
00:59:03,650 --> 00:59:01,319
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1319
00:59:05,460 --> 00:59:03,660
of Australian skeptics or any other

1320
00:59:15,900 --> 00:59:05,470
skeptical organisation

1321
00:59:21,610 --> 00:59:19,210
check a Czech Republic and Italy and

1322
00:59:24,190 --> 00:59:21,620
what's going on in Portugal and so on

1323
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:24,200
it's blown it's blown now it Brian

1324
00:59:28,510 --> 00:59:25,970
Dunning has just come into the room and

1325
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:28,520
what do you do it is recording live

1326
00:59:32,380 --> 00:59:30,770
streaming this well hey live streaming

1327
00:59:33,970 --> 00:59:32,390
yeah I thought you'd continue with the

1328
00:59:41,340 --> 00:59:33,980
interview or you can you mind the

1329
00:59:48,730 --> 00:59:44,380
that's the equivalent of photobombing

1330
00:59:50,170 --> 00:59:48,740
it's its podcast curation what were you

1331
00:59:55,729 --> 00:59:50,180
just saying what was your last sentence

1332
01:00:00,149 --> 00:59:59,549
I'm coming to you from the Golden Gate

1333
01:00:03,089 --> 01:00:00,159
Bridge

1334
01:00:07,459 --> 01:00:03,099
San Francisco I'm walking across from

1335
01:00:10,859 --> 01:00:07,469
south to north and I'm approaching the

1336
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:10,869
exact halfway point although it's real

1337
01:00:16,799 --> 01:00:12,880
time it's a lovely day for crossing the

1338
01:00:20,790 --> 01:00:16,809
bridge not too cold really the sky's a

1339
01:00:22,990 --> 01:00:20,800
bit cloudy but the view is clear

1340
01:00:25,390 --> 01:00:23,000
and surely

1341
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:25,400
since I don't think I'll be able to

1342
01:00:29,770 --> 01:00:29,210
visit another planet it's a wonderful

1343
01:00:31,930 --> 01:00:29,780
thing

1344
01:00:34,190 --> 01:00:31,940
to have the privilege to visit

1345
01:00:37,890 --> 01:00:34,200
[Applause]

1346
01:00:41,820 --> 01:00:37,900
glorious wonderful beautiful amazing

1347
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:46,240
I'm stepping up now and I think

1348
01:00:52,359 --> 01:00:49,250
I'm judging this correctly although

1349
01:00:56,260 --> 01:00:52,369
there's no marker there must be it

1350
01:00:59,440 --> 01:00:56,270
exactly the halfway point lots of people

1351
01:01:07,280 --> 01:00:59,450
walking back and forth today San

1352
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:09,300
you

1353
01:01:13,650 --> 01:01:12,160
one more Easter eggs folks for this

1354
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:13,660
week's show I'm with Brian Dunning and

1355
01:01:17,610 --> 01:01:15,610
beginning to play the dice game I have a

1356
01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:17,620
ten sided i dice whatever you want to

1357
01:01:24,300 --> 01:01:21,510
call it all right Brian is examining lis

1358
01:01:26,850 --> 01:01:24,310
skeptic is own is in sided die there

1359
01:01:28,410 --> 01:01:26,860
appears to be a normal die as far as I

1360
01:01:30,570 --> 01:01:28,420
can tell well you can be the guest

1361
01:01:32,190 --> 01:01:30,580
thrower this week we're going to throw

1362
01:01:34,290 --> 01:01:32,200
it three times and we'll invite our

1363
01:01:37,260 --> 01:01:34,300
listening audience to predict using

1364
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:37,270
psychic or any other powers what number

1365
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:39,130
will come up all right go ahead

1366
01:01:43,290 --> 01:01:41,530
yep so everybody at home in your car

1367
01:01:47,510 --> 01:01:43,300
walking the dog walking the cat walking

1368
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:47,520
the rat predict and the first number is

1369
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:50,170
did you want me to say it yeah three

1370
01:01:54,570 --> 01:01:52,450
three okay write that down everybody

1371
01:01:55,830 --> 01:01:54,580
with your skeptic zone pin where does

1372
01:01:57,150 --> 01:01:55,840
the prediction part come in today uh

1373
01:02:00,150 --> 01:01:57,160
what are they predicting something

1374
01:02:01,590 --> 01:02:00,160
before it's fun it works everybody now

1375
01:02:03,570 --> 01:02:01,600
oh you cut well you could predict

1376
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:03,580
afterwards but you know so everybody at

1377
01:02:07,380 --> 01:02:05,290
home now is predicting what the next

1378
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:07,390
number what might be now some people one

1379
01:02:15,050 --> 01:02:10,000
in 10 have said three you see okay in

1380
01:02:17,730 --> 01:02:15,060
the next number is we go for whoo I'm

1381
01:02:19,260 --> 01:02:17,740
detecting a pattern I'm making a

1382
01:02:20,010 --> 01:02:19,270
prediction of my own for the next throw

1383
01:02:23,100 --> 01:02:20,020
here uh-huh

1384
01:02:26,310 --> 01:02:23,110
and what's that well but not gonna tell

1385
01:02:30,420 --> 01:02:26,320
you obviously here we go

1386
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:30,430
yep last one it is exactly what I